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Subject: SPACE Digest V9 #269

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 9 : Issue 269

Today's Topics:
             Re: Synthetic Aperture Radar
         Re: First concert from space--update
          Re: Forbes article on manned space program
            Re: The never-ending argument
            Re: centrifugal forces
              Re: Voyager Images
         Re: First concert from space--update
                   ESA data
               Re: SPACE Digest V9 #257
              Re: 1992 moon base
             Re: NASA planetary footage?
              Re: 1992 moon base
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 89 11:23:25 SET
From: [e-mail]
Comment: CROSSNET mail via SMTP@INTERBIT
Subject: Re: Synthetic Aperture Radar

From: Lutz Massonne <ESC1325@ESOC> ([phone])
Subject: Re: Synthetic Aperture Radar

 In SPACE Digest #256 Joe Dellinger asked about SAR applications
 to geophysical questions.

 Hopefully, in late 1990 the European remote sensing satellite ERS-1
 will be launched, carrying among other instruments a synthetic aperture
 radar and a radar altimeter.
 The satellite mission is dedicated primary to sea and polar ice
 observations, but some land applications are also proposed.
 These will engage mainly the SAR and comprise (among other points)
 - cartography
 - geology mapping
 The source I have is the ERS-1 Programme Proposal Volume 1,
 System Description and Mission Capabilities.
 It is an ESA document, but my copy has no reference number.
 I would suggest to contact the ESA publications service at ESTEC
 about this.
 I have no information how the experiments for the ERS-1 satellite
 will be selected, but there is some operation time available for
 experiments beside the standard applications (sea surface and ice
 coverage mapping etc.)

 Regards, Lutz

 (Standard disclaimer applies)

 +------------------------------------------------------+
 | Address: Dr. Lutz Massonne, OAD/mbp, ESOC,           |
 |          Robert-Bosch-Str.5, D-6100 Darmstadt, FRG   |
 +------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 89 18:56:54 GMT
From: [e-mail]  (William M. Bumgarner)
Subject: Re: First concert from space--update

welcome to capitalism.

b.bum
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 89 18:26:22 GMT
From: mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Forbes article on manned space program

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Nick Szabo) writes:
>Do we need 1 g, and do we need 1 rotation per minute?

Nobody knows for sure on either.  We have no experience with low but
non-zero gravity over substantial periods.  The best current guess is
that rotation rates greater than 1 RPM will cause trouble, but again
we lack real experience.

>I suggest an experiment
>using long tethers, with small biological modules spaced at intervals
>(or sliding) to provide various levels of gravity from 0 to 1 g...

An excellent idea which has been suggested a number of times.  Unfortunately,
nobody is planning to do anything about it any time soon, except possibly
the Soviets.
--
The Earth is our mother;       |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
our nine months are up.        | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 25 Feb 89 00:30:08 GMT
From: vsi1!v7fs1![e-mail]  (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: The never-ending argument

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Nick Szabo) writes:
<In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Sparks) writes:
<> ... most supporters of the Unmanned Program are against the Manned
<>Program altogether, or put it off indefinately.
<
<Nobody has argued anything of the kind.  The argument is that we
<must "put it off" until it provides cost-effective return of scientific
<knowledge or money, or there are volunteers willing to undertake it at their

Which ammounts to exactly the same thing.  Knowledge about precisely
how to live and work in space will NEVER be obtained --- EVER ---
unless we go out there and try it.  What you are insisting upon,
whether you are personally aware of it or not, is that we relegate
manned space flight to a "study it to death but never DO anything
about it" status.
--
Mike Van Pelt                     Will your long-winded speeches never
Video 7                           end?  What ails you that you keep on
...ames!vsi1!v7fs1!mvp            arguing?    --    Job 16:3

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 89 18:39:58 GMT
From: hubcap!ncrcae!ncrlnk!ncrcce![e-mail]  (Wayne D. T. Johnson)
Subject: Re: centrifugal forces

Along the same lines,  I once read a short story about a community housed in
a cylindrical space colony.

As  I recall,  the propulsion system had failed and several of the  citizens
had  taken  up with jogging around the cylinder to keep  it  spinning,  thus
causing the spin (and of course the gravity) to increase.

After generations of this,  the non-jogging population got upset and started
an  incident because the gravity was increasing beyond the  original  level,
whereas the joggers had gotten so accustomed to their daily ritual that they
refused  to  stop.

The  result  was a compromise where they jogged one way around the  cylinder
one day, and the other direction the next.

--
Wayne Johnson                 (Voice) 612-638-7665
NCR Comten, Inc.             (E-MAIL) [e-mail] or
Roseville MN 55113                    [e-mail]
These opinions (or spelling) do not necessarily reflect those of NCR Comten.

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 89 06:13:47 GMT
From: hpfcdc![e-mail]  (Bob Niland)
Subject: Re: Voyager Images

re: "Does anyone know if the Voyager images are available to the public?"

You can get "The Voyager Gallery,  A HyperVideo Database" at most laser
video stores near you.  The list price is now $99.95; it was $49.95 for
most of 1988 :-(

In addition to the JPL animation, there are 2700 still frames from Voyager.
The disc is a product of Optical Data Corporation, who also offer the "Space
Archive" series, which includes lots of other NASA still images and motion
footage.  This is an NTSC CAV video disc pressed by 3M.  It includes a
5-1/4" floppy index.

> If so, can they be obtained in machine-readable format...

Well, sure, if you have NTSC, composite video or RGB input on your computer.

Regards,                                              Hewlett-Packard
Bob Niland        [e-mail]                  3404 East Harmony Road
                  [hplabs|hpu...!hpfcse]!rjn          Ft Collins CO 80525-9599

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 89 17:51:09 GMT
From: mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: First concert from space--update

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rick Wojcik) writes:
>>A company in Los Angeles called Orbit Productions has been formed to
>>stage the first ever concert from space.  A large portion of the proceeds
>>from this venture is to be donated to various charities.
>
>...  There is no justification whatever
>for sending Senators, teachers, and singers into orbit.  The Soviet Union
>shouldn't be sending up astronauts from different nations just to score
>political points...

They aren't any more; all future foreign cosmonauts will be paying
passengers.  It would surprise me greatly if Orbit Productions got a free
ride.  Almost certainly they will be asked to pay the commercial price
for their trip.

What, pray tell, is wrong with carrying people into orbit for a fee?
The airlines carry senators, teachers, and singers into the sky all the
time.  "Things that make profits don't have to make excuses."

You should not need permission from government bureaucrats to go into
space for purposes *you* consider worthwhile, assuming that you can pay
the fare and that there's a vacant seat.  It's truly mind-blowing that
to book a spaceliner seat in the "Free" World you need a very good reason,
years of patience, and approval from 57 layers of bureaucrats, while to
book one behind the Iron Curtain you just need the fare in hard currency.
--
The Earth is our mother;       |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
our nine months are up.        | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 89 19:28:54 GMT
From: asuvax!enuxha![e-mail]  (Norman C. Kluksdahl)
Subject: ESA data

A friend of mine is working on modeling organizational structures,
such as NASA before and after Challenger, and the European Space
Agency (ESA).  For that, he requires any available information about
ESA's organization.  Does anyone out there know of a good source of
such info?

Since he doesn't have access to the net, if you would kindly reply to
me, I have agreed to forward the info to him.

Thanks in advance.


Norman Kluksdahl              Arizona State University
            ..ncar!noao!asuvax!enuxha!kluksdah

standard disclaimer implied

Useful criticism always appreciated.  Senseless flames always discarded.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1989 12:56-EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V9 #257

> what about: there's  a guy i know who uses his cat to clean his instrument.
> he removes the optical component package at the viewing end and slides the
> animal through the tube to pick up the dust.

If you look through the tube at the same time, would you get a CAT
scan? :-)

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 89 21:06:23 GMT
From: phoenix![e-mail]  (Keith P. Mancus)
Subject: Re: 1992 moon base


    Just how close are we to being able to establish this unmanned
base we are discussing?  In particular, I would like to know how
far development of teleoperated mechanical hands has progressed.
Do hands capable of picking up and turning a wrench or screwdriver
exist?  If you have to build all of the tools into the hand, repair
will be very expensive and for complex tasks impractical.
    I can't believe that a 3 second turnaround lag will matter for
most jobs.  And as I remarked previously, this will provide a good
opportunity to test Mars Rover technology without losing the ability
to grab control of the machine away from the AI software.
    So, does anyone who should know think it would be practical to
make "repair robots" whose specific task is to repair other robots?
Under what circumstances would they prove unable to subsititute for
a human repairman?  Surely they could change PC boards?

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
-Keith Mancus <[e-mail]>  <- preferred
              <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 89 06:25:46 GMT
From: hpfcdc![e-mail]  (Bob Niland)
Subject: Re: NASA planetary footage?

re: "Does anyone have information about the availability of color video
     from NASA's 'recent' interplanetary missions (Voyager, Viking, ICEE),
     or animations of same?  I am helping an area science museum put
     together a videodisk ..."

Check your local videodisc store first.  The Optical Data Corporation has
already done this.

Space Archive series:
  Vol.1: Space Shuttle STS 5,6,7      (CAV,dual analog sound) 1983
  Vol.2: Apollo 17                    (CAV,dual analog sound) 1984
  Vol.3: Mars and Beyond      (CAV,dual analog sound,Some 3D) 1985
  Shuttle Downlink                    (CAV,dual analog sound) 1984
  Vol.5: Greetings from Earth  (CAV,stereo/dual analog sound) 1985
  Vol.6: Encounters              (CAV,stereo CX analog sound) 1986

Space Disc
  Voyager Gallery         (CAV,stereo digital & analog sound) 1988

Regards,                                              Hewlett-Packard
Bob Niland        [e-mail]                  3404 East Harmony Road
                  [hplabs|hpu...!hpfcse]!rjn          Ft Collins CO 80525-9599

------------------------------

Date: 24 Feb 89 01:59:19 GMT
From: tikal!sigma!uw-nsr!uw-warp!gtisqr![e-mail]  (Kevin Bagley)
Subject: Re: 1992 moon base

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Norman C. Kluksdahl) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Paul Dietz) writes:
>   [ lots of stuff deleted ]
>>
>> While earth-operated rovers may be slower, they could be operated around
>> the clock (at least during the lunar day).  Earth-bound operators would be
>> many times less expensive than lunar colonists.
>>
>How about this:  If we can put teleoperated lunar rovers on the surface, which
>can then survey the terrain and find good deposits of materials, why not
>follow up these rovers with teleoperated materials extraction robots, to
>extract and stockpile materials such as glass, aluminum, iron, silicon, etc,
>for a permanent colony to follow later?
>
    [ lots of stuff deleted ]

I think that at some point, we need to get away from every thing being
teleoperated, unless we are never going to go there on a permanent basis.
Anyhow, What if these rovers (teleoperated from the lunar base) carried
along relay stations, simple radio booster on tall poles. The rover goes
along planting these things, increasing it's range as it goes. No long
range communication sattelite needed, plus, you would be building the
foundation for communications between bases.

Sounds sort of like Johnny Appleseed :-).

I think that living with a 3 second delay will become (quickly) more
expensive than operators located on the moon for the following reasons...

1) Things fail (non-repairable from earth). You have to blast another one
   up there to replace it. Not cheap.

2) Production will be slower. Dont move faster than you can react or you
   will end up a statistic of #1 above. You probably will anyway since
   something you picked up could be dropped, thow a rock into the gears
   etc. etc. etc.

3) Improvements possible on current models, won't get implemented. You
   would have to go get them, bring em back, update em, and send em back.
   Or build new ones, making those transistorized blivets outdated.
   Though they might still be usefull, they cannot be upgraded without
   extreme expense. (production suffers)

4) One of these mobile lunabots may get stuck. It might require the
   use of a lever to free it, or maybe a size 9 hex wrench., Damn I
   wish we had a base to draw on. Resources available in a peopled base,
   would prove very valuable to mobile travelers.

5) The less quantifiable value of having people available, and ready to
   act on information not available to lunabots.  Something felt funny
   when I kicked that rock. Hmmmm.  Say Suzie, the lunabot can't get
   between those rocks. Can you grab that 50 lb. chunk of platinum laying
   there?

I think I could go on and on, but I'll stop and let somebody shoot me. :-)

--
 _____   Kevin Bagley  Global Tech. Int'l Inc., Mukilteo WA 98275  206-742-9111
  )___)  __    _   _   UUCP:uw-beaver!uw-nsr!uw-warp!gtisqr!kevin
_/___)  (__(__(_)_/_)_ ARPA:uw-nsr!uw-warp!gtisqr![e-mail]
_______________/  Disclaimer...  "I did not say this. I am not here."

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V9 #269
*******************